290: Singing Better with Maggie Gelin

Very quickly before I dive into this episode with Maggie, my guest today, I wanted to share that the doors to registering for "Get Rid of Anxiety and Trauma for Good" are open for my beta. Meaning, this is the first time I've run the program, so you get the founding members' price, which is deeply discounted as we work together to create the program. This is what I've done with one-on-one clients, and I've achieved success and amazing results for so many people. You can access it in this program for a deeply discounted rate. If you want to join before the doors close in a few days, go to www.meganhellica.com/be-anxiety-free. This is only available for 15 people. After 15 people, it will close down. So, either in a few days or when I reach 15 people, alright, let's dive in.

Welcome to the Joyful Mom Podcast! I have a really fun guest today who I just haven't known for very long, but she's just, I feel like, just emanates like a joy and kind of like a very light energy. So, I'm very excited to have her here. I'm going to share a little bit about Maggie. Maggie guides singers to find their true voice using her unique "Sing Yourself to Freedom" formula, crafted from years of experience studying under renowned mentors in both England and the United States. Maggie imparts invaluable techniques learned from instructors who've shaped famous artists like Michael Bublé and Josh Groban. With a decade of coaching, she witnesses remarkable transformations in her students, guiding them past insecurities to sing with newfound freedom, proving that singing goes beyond a skill; it's a path to embracing life fully.

So, Maggie, and I'm gonna mess up your last name again; you just told me, Galen, yeah? OK, welcome to the podcast. I'm very excited to have you here.

Well, thank you so much for having me and for inviting me here. I appreciate this.

Yes, so can you just introduce yourself—where are you from, what you do, how you help people, what you know, whatever you want to share about yourself?

Of course. So, first of all, I'm very grateful for this opportunity, so I wanted to thank you again for inviting me to your podcast. So, Becky, I am from Belgium, and we just talked a little bit before starting the recording. I did do some studies in England and the United States as well, but originally from Belgium. And I help people—how I like to summarize it is to get into that best version of themselves through singing. So, I wouldn't say from a singing teacher where I teach people how to sing that I do that, but it goes way beyond that. It's all about what singing can bring to someone's life, and I believe that singing can be an amazing, beautiful, joyful vehicle to step into that better version of yourself. So, that's kind of what I do and how I help people in my line of work.

Yeah, I love that because when we kind of touched on this a little bit, I was kind of like, "Well, wait, do you only work with people who want to have a career as a singer?" And then you're like, "No, it's more about, it's not about the end product, it's about the joy of singing or, you know, yeah, singing and just using that as a tool for whatever it is."

Now, I did start with just one-on-one singing lessons because that's how I paid my rent when I was studying in England. But I quickly realized that singing is this way for people to express themselves, to have this emotional but also creative outlet in their lives. And it became a therapeutic device for some people. And I did not feel equipped at all as a singing teacher to help people overcome any, how can I say it, mind blocks? Because, you know, the inner critic is a thing that comes up in our lessons as well. But that aspect was very mysterious to me. Like, how is it possible that someone that I just met 10 minutes ago starts singing with me, and then suddenly they open up about their lives? And that's where the coaching came in handy. So, that's where I started to dive into the world of coaching and trying or that's what I'm doing now, using the coaching tools and the singing tools and bringing those two worlds together. And I found out that's really where my passion and purpose lie, and that's where the sweet spot for many singers is.

So, yeah, it doesn't really, like you say, and as we talked about, it doesn't matter what you want to do with your singing, whether that's building a big career or just singing in the shower and not being afraid to sing in the shower when someone's home, for example. That's a big goal for many singers that I work with. That doesn't necessarily matter what the end goal is because we all go through the same journey: how can I use my voice? How can I make sure I'm effectively doing that? And how can I make sure I experience that vocal freedom? But also, how can I overcome any of the insecurities that come up throughout that process? Whether that's your husband coming home when you're singing and then feeling the nerves while performing on stage,. So, I work with both—well, with any singers that kind of find themselves there.

I love that we had a chance to chat for a little bit, and you mentioned something quickly, which probably felt quick to you, but to me, it was like, we talked about domino beliefs in the coaching program. And then it was like, "Whoa, that was my domino belief," and you just blew my mind. Really? Yes, you had just mentioned that you help people sing, even if they think they can't or something along those lines, even if they think they're not a good singer, even if they think they don't know how. You help people, you know, get better or something along those lines. And I was just like, "I am not a good singer." I love to sing. It's been, you know, I used to be in choirs and whatever. And now it's just like, I enjoy music. I like listening, but I don't strive to be a better singer because I'm like, "Oh yeah, no, it's in my genes. It's not for me." And so, can everyone learn to sing? Can everybody learn some skills to improve and become better singers?

I appreciate that question so much, and I appreciate that you're sharing your experience of our short conversation because, for me, it's such a no-brainer. Of course, everyone can learn to sing. That's just a given for me. But then it isn't for you, and I think that's where it gets really interesting. Many singers—well, many people who love to sing but don't necessarily see themselves as singers yet—ask me that question all the time. Even my mom cannot sing on pitch at this point, but she doesn't have the passion or drive to be able to do so. Even she's saying, "Well, I can never learn this." And I'm telling her, "Yes, you can, and I'll tell you why."

Our vocal cords are basically like rubber bands—elastic bands that you can make longer and shorter. The longer you make them, the higher the pitch, and the shorter they are, the lower the pitch. Now, to make them longer or shorter, some muscles need to be involved to stretch the vocal cords or make them thicker and shorter. These muscles are, well, I'm going to make it simple: the vocal muscles in general. We can train those, where you can sing specific exercises or use your voice in a specific way to activate those vocal muscles and have them operate in a certain way. You could compare that to any other sport. If I'm a baby learning to walk, well, my legs will have to first learn how to stand on my feet so that I'm standing up. Then, I need to learn how to keep my balance if I move from my right to my left foot. And then I need to be able to step forward. So, all of those things are things that we teach our body to do with our muscles. And this is what's called muscle memory. It's now so ingrained in our bodies that we don't even consciously think of it. And that's what's happening with singing because we're so used to talking as people. Hopefully, many of us have been talking for our whole lives, and we've been using our voices in some way. And then, when we're trying to translate that to singing, we're kind of using the same setup. However, talking and singing is very different because singing goes way up in pitch, we have rhythm, we have intonation, and we have all those other things that come as well. And so, it's interesting to find ways to retrain those muscles so that we break out of the muscle memory of "this is what my vocal muscles do when I'm talking" and "this is what my vocal muscles can do when I'm singing." And this is just a matter of practice like any other skill.

To summarize, yes, everyone can learn to sing. I will give a little disclaimer because there are exceptions, and those are tone-deaf people. And even now, there have been studies that prove otherwise, so that proves that even tone-deaf people can learn how to sing. So, there's still a debate going on in the music world regarding those people, but the truth is that only 4% of the whole population is tone-deaf. So, if you're tone-deaf, you wouldn't even show interest in music because you cannot differentiate one pitch from another. So, you wouldn't even have the desire to want to sing. So, the fact that you love to sing or that you like to listen to music tells me that you're not tone-deaf and that you can learn to sing.

I love that, and I think that's a good explanation for that. It makes sense when you explain it like that; it's a different way of using the muscles when you're singing versus talking. But I would have never put that together or even thought about it because, I guess, I've never thought about it, but it just makes sense to me. So, I'm glad, and I appreciate that.

I've had this thought about singing that I kind of shared with you before we started. After my daughter Aria died, I couldn't sing for over a year. At church, we sing, you know, every time, and I would just look at the words. I couldn't sing, and I feel like singing is like this for me. Singing is like joy; it's like joy coming out. And when I was so deeply grieving, it was like no one was coming.

It was almost like my voice was shut off. So that's one side of it. The other side of it is singing. I feel like sometimes, if I've felt some sort of emotional something, say anxiety or sadness or something, even just now in my life, if I sing, it's almost like I'm tricking my mind into thinking everything's good because singing is that joy for me. So, I don't know if that made sense how I said that, but that's kind of two sides of the same coin where it's hard to get anything out because there's so much emotion. And then the other side is, if you're not feeling great, if we're not to the level of the grief that I was, but if I'm not feeling great if I sing, it makes me feel better. Yeah, can you speak on that or your thoughts on that?

Oh, yeah, I can speak on that for hours. Let's take a look at the first side of the coin when you were talking about your grief. This is something that I have a student in our membership who is going through right now, not with her daughter but with another family member. For her, she lost her voice as well, and she's only now, and it's been years, starting to rediscover her voice. It's not logical in my brain. I mean, for some of us who are very rational and very fact-driven, like my brother, who's a bioengineer, it might not make sense because if someone like my brother would look at this person, they would see that this person still has vocal cords; those vocal cords can still vibrate. So then why can't she sing? It doesn't make sense. However, if we're looking at the more emotional side of things, when we are emotional, our voice reacts.

A beautiful example is when you're crying when you're sad; your voice might break. So suddenly, instead of speaking like this, you might start talking like that. Now, I'm exaggerating it, but your vocal color changes. There's also this thing—I don't know if you say this in English; my native language is Dutch—but in that, you have this saying of being "grabbed by the throat," which means that you cannot express yourself because the emotions are so high that everything just constricts. So, that too is something that you might experience when you're feeling these intense emotions. We've all had that feeling of having your throat swollen as if you're holding back the tears. You know that feeling I'm talking about? And then, in those moments, that's where all the vocal muscles will constrict around the vocal cords, and then there's no free vibration that can happen. So, that's the science behind that. But all of this is just to prove that our emotions have a huge impact on how our voice sounds and how we use our voices.

Many singers who work with me say they have a tense voice or a hoarse voice after singing, and they think they need to work on their vocal technique when it's the emotional side of things we need to look at. But that's another thing. Going back to that first part of the coin, yes, if you're grieving, it doesn't surprise me that you would tell me, "Oh, it took me a while before I found my voice again." That's one thing. Also, your voice is such a personal thing. It's not like a piano, a guitar, or any other instrument that is outside of you. If you hit the wrong note on the piano, the piano did the wrong thing. I mean, you were the one hitting the wrong notes, but the thing making the sound is the piano. If you're singing the wrong notes, well, that's way more personal because suddenly it's you. It's your body; it's your soul. And they always say that singing frees up your soul, and you're like you're naked when you're singing. It feels like you're naked; everyone can just look right through you because you're being so open, vulnerable, and honest. And that too, when we're in that grieving process, can be something that is very, very, very hard to find because what do we do when we're sad or angry or all of those big emotions? We tend to stay in our little world, and we tend to want to protect ourselves from the outside. And protecting ourselves means no vulnerability and self-seeking doesn't happen.

Yeah, so I don't know if that kind of paints a picture for that first side of the coin. Do you have anything to add?

No, that sounds very, like, I like your scientific side of it, of why even if it feels impossible, like, even if you were to try singing if you have a ton of emotion. And then, yeah, it just makes sense of how that feels like it's a vulnerable thing to sing. And I guess for me, again, like I said, that joy is like singing joy. And it's like, well if you're not feeling joy, how can you sing joy? You know, or, like, how can you exactly? How can you do something that feels joyous to me when you don't feel that way at all? And that's where we can go to the other side of the coin that you described because I think both of them are late.

I also work with someone who has a very hard time expressing his emotions, but for him, singing is a way to express them. And when we're looking at that joy that singing can give us, going back to the science for a while, when we're singing, those happy hormones are released. I think endorphins are what they're called, like the ones that you also feel when you're going for a run or when you get a hug from someone. Those happy hormones get released when we're singing, too. So, it's kind of this—I wouldn't say vicious cycle—but like an upward spiral, a positive cycle. The more you sing, the more those hormones get released, and then the happier you are, and then the more you want to sing because then more hormones get released, and the happier you are. And that's just how it escalates. Now, we need to start somewhere with this. So, that's why you're probably feeling the joy when you're singing—the hormones that get released.

However, with this person, this person has a very difficult time expressing their emotions. So, we've looked at, okay, what are songs where you can express anger or what are songs where you can express sadness? And for him, now I'm not saying that's for everyone, you have to find your way, obviously, but for him specifically, it helps him to move through these heavy emotions sometimes. So, when he feels anger piling up in his body, instead of giving it a good scream or a punch like some of us would do, he has a playlist, "My Angry Songs," and he puts them on, and then he sings it out, and then he feels so much better afterward.

Now, what's tricky in his particular situation, and for any of us, is that we need to have that first step to get us to say, "Right, if you're so buried in grief and your mind is not even thinking about singing or you don't feel the need to sing or you don't feel like they want to sing, well, then it's really hard to take that first step." Does that make sense?

It's perfect sense. It's like, you know, that would be helpful, but you don't feel like it, so how are you supposed to even do it, you know?

Yeah, do it because you're so angry, you're so sad or you don't feel like it. And it's and that is the hardest part of everyone's journey, whether that's regarding singing or eating vegetables, whatever it might be, finding that inner drive and any motivation to do the thing that you know is good for you. If you can find that, I think that is what gives you all the power, because then the ball just starts rolling. But we need to find that, and that's the challenge for many of us.

I love that perspective, by the way. I'm going to take that to the singers that I'm working with. You absolutely can. It's just an RT perspective that I thought was useful for me when I was like, "Oh, I wonder," you know, because if you act a certain way, then your mind gets it that, "Oh, there's nothing to be afraid of right now." Also, what I'm thinking of, but now, again, I'm linking it to the singing process itself. Yeah, when we're singing, you're encouraged to use your diaphragmatic breath, which is the breathing style that regulates your nervous system. So, it would make sense too that your brain would link that to safety.

However, what I'm thinking of now is, well, how come so many singers still struggle with performance anxiety? In those situations, they do feel the threat, and they do perceive that a lion's coming at them. So, yeah, I think that's an interesting thing to look at. I wonder, does RT talk about those paradoxes? I guess I've never thought about it in terms of, like, a performance. I think in the performance just right now and we're talking about it together, it would be more like there's a bigger threat or, you know, there's some clearing that can be done of seeing an audience as a threat or seeing being in front of people as a threat. But first, I'm just, like, you know, when I'm just in my home when nothing is going on, but, you know, feeling a certain way helped me. So, I guarantee that'll help them stand on stage in front of a bunch of people because their minds will read that as a threat. Yeah, interesting, interesting. Yeah, it's beautiful how singing can be a powerful tool to use in different contexts. Yeah, I love it.

So, we kind of touched on it a little bit already, but how can singing, just if you have anything to add to this, how can singing bring more joy into someone's life or how can it support them if they're going through a tough situation in their life?

I think we did touch on the endorphins and stuff. One thing that we haven't touched upon is also the connections that can happen when you're singing, which can make a huge difference in someone's life. An example of that would be choirs, for example. That's where my journey started. How you bond with someone when you're singing together is, for me, indescribable. There's nothing like it. And using a choir, too; I did. I haven't had three years, but you have the experience, so that's one thing. Thinking with people, being part of a group, being part of a community, feeling those harmonies, and hearing the power of all those voices coming together—that's one thing.

I also see that in my membership. We obviously have a membership for singers, so singers come together and make connections. Even though it's an online membership, there are still deep connections happening, and I'm so grateful to see how one thing—singing, one passion—can connect so many different kinds of people. And friendships are coming from that. I mean, for example, a few weeks ago, we had two new members, and we have this system called the singing buddy where you can pair up with someone to go through the program. They live on the opposite side of the street or something. It was so funny. Yes, that is crazy. They never met before joining the program. And we have an open mic session every month where people get to sing in front of their peers, and they team up. They came together in their house together for the first time to sing something. I think that's magical. So, having this unified thing connecting people is one way that singing can bring joy into someone's life.

So, in groups, connecting, but also connecting with yourself and, in my opinion, that's the deepest, most meaningful connection you can have. Singing is, for many of us, a way to express emotions, a way to express a story, and a way to connect with someone. And you're in the process of doing that. Many singers or many people who sing tend to notice that they need to connect with themselves first before they can make that connection with someone else. So, you're learning so much about yourself in the process—about your fears, about your doubts, about your insecurities. And if you can overcome all of those when you're singing, well, what becomes possible outside of singing? So, I think that's a beautiful, positive thing that singing brings into your life as well. But I mean, I'm biased. I love to sing, so I love it.

No, that makes sense. And even just that idea that if someone can do something like that, that takes a lot of working through their fears, and that can translate easily into other areas of life. Like, "OK, I got up in front of people and sang. Like, you know, I'm never going to do that." So, to me, that's a big deal to do that. So, then they worked through all of that to do that, and now they can translate that to other areas of their lives, like, "OK, I know what it feels like to work through fears and to know that, OK, yeah, I can do this even if it feels scary or even if I feel fear."

Let me give you an example that is just too beautiful not to share. One of our members has been with us for years. One of the fears that he overcame was to show up as himself and open up. He used to battle depression, being very closed off from the world, and not letting anyone in. Singing for him became a way to open up, welcome people in, and find joy again. He emailed me a few months ago with big news: he's in a relationship with someone. This has changed his life. He would have never found this person if he hadn't learned how to open himself up in this authentic way. It's so powerful to see how what you overcome in singing can help you in your relationships or your workplace. If you're comfortable singing in front of people, you won't be afraid to speak up during a meeting at work.

Yes, that's beautiful. Because you already have that practice there, doing exactly that.

Okay, Maggie, can you share with us your formula for people who want to learn how to sing?

Yes, so actually, we kind of touched on almost all of the four parts. So, I always operate from what I call the Sing Yourself to Freedom Formula. Singing freely using your voice while freeing yourself as well through singing. There are four parts, and we briefly touched upon all of them.

The first one is the mindset part, which is obviously something that you know a lot about as well. All of that inner work, finding that confidence to open up, to be vulnerable, to show up as yourself, not wanting to be someone else—all those beautiful things that we touched on earlier in the conversation. So, the mindset part is the first pillar that needs to be in place, and oftentimes, it's the one that is missed the most by singers who just want to learn to sing. They go to the second pillar immediately, which is the vocal technique pillar. That's where you're learning the actual skills. As we talked earlier, our vocal cords are like rubber bands. You have certain muscles, so you need to know which muscles do what and when and how to use them, kind of like learning how to walk. Singing the right types of exercises and following the right type of vocal training is what many beginner singers tend to gravitate towards first.

But as we discussed earlier, sometimes it's the emotions that are in the way, and then we need to go back to the mindset pillar. So, those are the two main ones: mindset and then vocal technique.

The third one that kind of flows from that is, now that you have the confidence, now that you're showing up as your authentic self, now that you know how to use your voice, now that you can sing freely and don't have any limitations, how can you have your personality shine through? And that's the third pillar, the creativity pillar. That's where I love to look at things like storytelling, emotional expression, improvisation, variation, and all those things. Many singers tend to listen to a song and then kind of copy the original singer, but there's no emotion in the song. And that's where that third pillar is so important. How can you make sure that if someone listens to you, they're moved by that? The only way to do that is by being you. How can you make sure you're showing up with me? That's the third pillar.

And then the fourth pillar—that's what we talked about earlier as well—is the connection pillar. Connection with yourself, connection with another. Many singers want some kind of connection, whether that's singing on stage with an actual audience that listens and makes that connection that way, singing in a choir, or finding a singing buddy that you can sing with once a week. What does that connection look like? Sometimes it's posting on social media. Whatever that might be for you, this is the thing that will keep the drive and purpose within your singing journey as well. So, those four elements, if one of them is out of balance, you're quickly going to notice that you're bumping up against limitations or something that doesn't feel quite right. However, when all four are practiced, worked through, and free, that's when you're feeling free when you're singing and in your daily life as well.

I love those. That feels very reachable, but also like, yeah, I could do that, you know? Like, yeah, that's possible because of those... I like that.

One thing that came to mind when you talked about community came to mind again.

When I think back to the choir I mentioned earlier that I sang in when I was younger, it feels dramatic to say it saved my life, but it was a very difficult time for me. I was going through some significant friend changes as a 16- or 17-year-old, which was super painful. Then I joined a choir, and in that choir, I met tons of new people who became lifelong friends. I'm still friends with almost everybody from that choir today, and it has truly shaped my life. While I'm not singing in a choir anymore, I know the power of connection and community. Being with people when you have a purpose, like singing in that choir, had a huge effect on me as a 16- or 17-year-old, for sure.

Yeah, I can relate to what you're saying. I was an exchange student in California in 2012, and the first thing I did was join my high school choir. Those people came to my wedding this past summer, for example. You're in Belgium, so the connections that happen in those kinds of places are indescribable.

Absolutely. Maggie, is there anything else you feel like you would like to add to call this complete? To feel like, "Yep, I got everything"?

Yeah, I mean, today we've talked a lot about singing, and even if someone is listening now and might think, "Oh, I'm not a singer. I don't like to sing," just replace the word "singing" from this conversation with whatever fits you, whether that's painting, running, or you know, singing is just my way of finding that joy in life. And I believe there are many opportunities for other people as well. Everything we talked about is applicable in any area. Whatever the vehicle is, we have chosen singing as the vehicle, but maybe for you, it might be meditation. I don't know. So, I wanted to address that there are so many opportunities to find that joy in our lives, and whether that's through singing or another way, my invitation to the people listening would be to go after that and keep doing those things.

I appreciate that because I think having some way to find expression, some sort of creativity, art, movement, or something, is really useful for all of us. And so, even if it's not in singing, there are millions of ways in which that could be. So, find something. If you don't have something, I just had a conversation with a lady yesterday; she's like, "I don't have any hobbies. I have nothing. My husband told me I need a hobby." And it's like, "Okay, so how do you start?" Just start trying things and see what feels right for you.

Absolutely, and sometimes perspective, yeah. Sometimes it can be very subtle. Let me talk about my brother again, the data science person. For him, for example, doing Sudoku puzzles is his thing. He likes to keep his brain busy, so any math problem or brain activity is a great way for him to relax. For me, it's horrible. We're like opposites. But oftentimes, if you think you don't have a hobby, doing Sudoku might not be a hobby, but it's something that he already does where he finds joy. So, I'm sure everyone in each of our lives does some things that bring us joy, make us feel good, or make us feel comfortable, and it's about finding those things and doing more of that.

That's wonderful, Maggie. What's one thing that brings you joy in your life today?

Besides singing, I'm in my third trimester of pregnancy, and feeling my baby kick throughout the day is one source of joy right now.

That's also magical! I mean, it takes away all the aches and pains that you're feeling about pregnancy, right?

Sure! Well, that's exciting for you, and good luck with all of that. Thank you!

What is one book that has encouraged you, helped you, or maybe shifted something in your life?

There are so many, but one I can see the cover of in front of me, although I don't remember the title, it's from Dr. Glassman. Let me just quickly Google it... Ah, yes, "Happier You" by Scott Glassman. Not a doctor, but okay!

Yes, I love that big green book! I love getting book recommendations because everybody I talk to asks me to add it to my book list. Have you read it?

Yes, I have! It's focused on a positive mindset but without being overly positive, you know?

Yeah, because you can be overly positive as well, so I like that book. It's very actionable, too.

Amazing! How can people connect with you, Maggie? Share where they can follow you, where they can find you, where they can join your membership, etc.

If you want to join us, go to my website, singinginsiders.com, and then you can find all the information there. If you'd like to connect with me, Instagram would be the best place, just maggie_gelin, or you can email us at help@singinginsiders.com as well. If you want to join the membership and be part of a beautiful singing family, that's the place to be.

Thank you for letting me share that. I will link it all up in the show notes too, so thanks, Maggie, for taking the time to come chat with me and talk about singing. It's been so fun!

Thank you so much for this amazing opportunity and this amazing conversation. I enjoyed it. Thank you!

Instagram: @maggie_gelin

Website: www.singinginsiders.com

Email: help@singinginsiders.com